My husband got a like on facebook of a picture he uploaded of our kids from this girl he knew on a very surface level, but when I clicked on her profile picture I got a picture of a naked body with roses covering her nipples and and spiky chains around her neck and stomach. Definitely a girl into BDSM, and she was single, and probably only 20 or 21 years old. He didn’t get into trouble because he can’t really control who likes his pictures and facebook just changed their feature so more people can see more things, so he is redoing his friends and privacy for me. But I can’t get over the idea that she is into BDSM with men she doesn’t know very well and at a very young age. BDSM is going to be sex for her, it isn’t going to be a dabbling, and I wonder if she’ll ever have normal sex or be satisfied with normal sex. I wonder if she really likes BDSM or if she’s trying to stand out among women as “the sexiest of them all” and getting positive attention for it. I can’t imagine being in her shoes, and it scares me that young women out there are choosing this path.
I also recently ran across a picture on a blog of a woman with stripes across her back from a BDSM sexual experience. Now don’t get mad at men, she probably convinced him she wanted it and she probably liked it too. BDSM is very exciting sexually, quite the high I hear.
Why are we this way? What is so alluring about receiving pain and being completely submissive to a man? Why do I have fantasies so dirty I wouldn’t tell a soul and why did God make us with these desires if they are so evil? It makes me think of the show Dexter and how he would get a high every time he murdered someone, murder was addicting and it felt powerful and good to him, so he just pretended to be a nice guy to the world, but behind the scenes he had ultimate power over people’s lives. I don’t think BDSM is like murder really, but it helps me to find some perspective of where it is and our human desires.
I think that women crave strong, powerful men. We crave it so much, that if we’re not getting it in bed we resort to fantasies. I don’t think this is wrong, God is strong, he’s powerful, and he’s to be feared. There’s a reason that God said men should be like Christ and women should be like the church. Men get to be the powerful ones and women get to be the beautiful ones. Men out there, make sure your wife is getting a taste of your power during sex every once in awhile, we need it just as much as you do.
I got a sneak peek into 50 Shades of Grey….
“I pull him deeper into my mouth so I can feel him at the back of my throat and then to the front again. My tongue swirls around the end. He’s my very own Christian Grey-flavored popsicle. I suck harder and harder … Hmm … My inner goddess is doing the merengue with some salsa moves.”
I imagine there is nothing better to a man than a woman who is taking complete pleasure in him sexually, savoring him “like chocolate”, and delighting in him. Is it sacreligious to jump to this is what God asks us to do. God asks us to glorify Him and enjoy Him forever, that is the chief end of man…so would it not be a leap to say that this is what husbands desire..husbands being Christ and the wife being the church, Christ should be enjoyed and glorified too?
Anyway, I would like to conclude with… The desires of BDSM are right and good, but I don’t think the method of BDSM is the way to appease those desires. BDSM is a lie that our culture is feeding us that tells us it will satisfy our needs of powerful strong men and women who delight, scream, and thoroughly enjoy having sex with their man. I think BDSM actually leads to more painful things, to women who feel worthless, and to men who, well I don’t know what it might do to a man.
I think the only way for men to be stronger and for women to be more “delighting-able”, is to first go to God. What could make a man stronger than being one with Christ, who out there is stronger than Christ? Women first need to understand how to savor and delight in God, and then take the next step of savoring and delighting in their husbands. Only God can satisfy this need, BDSM is a lie.
This song totally turns me on, why is it so easy to worship men instead of God, why is it such a temptation to be taken and abused? What is this in me that wants to be used instead of loved.
Tagged: BDSM, Dexter, God, Human sexual activity, kink, Politics of Sexuality, Sexology, Sexuality
Hmm. I must admit, you sort of lost me here…
We’ve gotten quite a bit heavy into some BDSM, and I don’t think it’s a bad thing at all if it’s with a person you trust and love. Doesn’t make me feel abused or powerless. If anything, I have all the power in those times, because I can stop it with a word. He can’t do anything that I’m not comfortable with. At the same time, I freely give myself to him to do what he will with it. It’s a pretty great thing for us.
And yes, sometimes we’re just vanilla. The more intense stuff definitely outnumbers the vanilla these days, though. Generally depends on our moods and where I am in my cycle (I need more gentle stuff near the end if it).
I don’t really equate what I get out of it to anything I can get from God… I mean, it kind of scratches a different itch, if you know what I’m saying. I guess equating them or putting them in the same category doesn’t set well with me. Sort of like saying you can get your hunger met with God instead of food. God is awesome, but you still need to eat. (Not the best analogy, but the best one I can think of at the moment)
Do you know what I mean? I know what I’m trying to say, but reading what I wrote doesn’t really convey it well, lol.
I think there’s definitely degrees of it and I’m glad you both have found what’s made you happy.
And men who are heartless.
yes.
I do understand this – speaking as a man who loves being humiliated and whipped etc. I am deeply ashamed of myself for real, and I have a lot of trouble reconciling all parts of my person. Why do we feel this way? I do not know if there is a God (I feel there is not), but if there is, I would take some comfort from the idea that all things are (as Milton put it) “are in my great taskmaster’s eye” and that God’s challenge to us is to live an authentic and valid life. If there were a God, he would ground my ethics, and found my universe. But I do not feel there is, and this is a source of despair to me. So like you I just do not have an answer, but if you have faith in God, then you need to go to the meaning of things. For me I feel it means nothing
And I love the Kesha song too (in fact, I love her whole party girl thing, because she seems to have so much fun). Thank you for this deep and reflective post. I value your integrity and honesty.
blessings to you and I hope you find truth.
Thank you for that – I love the honesty of your blog.
WOW, Sis! I mean, wow!? I’ll be back later to comment. I have to get up too early tomorrow for a job to deal with this now. So much to say about so many things.
Really looking forward to the reading the comments on this one. Like I have said before, don’t blink on this site, like weather in the Ohio valley, it’ll change before you open them. And this was posted BEFORE my BE BOLD suggestion on the previous post. Time to revive those “duck and cover under the desk” drills from grade school during the cold war days. INCOMING!!!
It’s fun to surprise you, I liked your comment in the last thread too.
I’ve copied some of your thoughts to a word.doc so I can focus my comments. I have another job Saturday so I will be late to the party. It seems to be widely and well attended though, as well as I can see from under the desk here anyway. You’re a trip girl.
Pain leads to endorphens… endorphens enhance pleasure.
Then there’s the power exchange aspect, which is mentally stimulating. It’s very scripted, helps move the mind to the right places, which is more important to women.
Sexual response is very much something you can influence with pavlovian techniques, btw.
You’re right that someone heavily into BDSM will have difficulty coming back to vanilla – but “very into” tends to be pretty darn hardcore, more SM than BD. From what I gather, “Fifty Shades” is BD and D/s, not SM.
HTH!
I don’t really know enough about it to even think of separating BD from the SM, but you’re right, maybe they don’t belong together.
BD – scarves and handcuffs, teasing. DS – obedience/lifestyle, possibly collared. SM – Whips and insults. That’s the short version.
Not necessarily insults.
True, although one of my friends used to be a dominatrix… and insults were what she got paid to dish out. Whips can be in BD too… full out SM is a harder colder place.
I agree with hearthie – Fifty Shades is all BD and D/s – none SM, there is a world of difference.
I’m thinking I have more issues with the second than the first.
“I think that women crave strong, powerful men.” I think most women crave strong, powerful men (and yes, there is plenty visa versa). Not sure if one would consider me submissive, but I do receive my sexual gratification from my man acting like a man and being cherished by him. I certainly don’t call that BDSM … but then again, I dont think all BDSM relationships are abusive. Rather, the roles of each are clearly defined to include certain responsibilities for each other, sexually and mentally.
that’s good that they’re not abusive, but how do they get to abusive?
when you mention abuse … do you mean hurting for sexual pleasure or causing someone pain (mental and physical) that is nonconsensual? If you are talking about nonconsensual, I am not sure why any relationship goes there … too many hurt people walking around in the world today. Consensual pain is just something that two people find mutually pleasing
You gave the right answer.
Let me say it is utterly insane to me (in the good way) that these exists a contigent of women who WANT TO BE WOMEN AND PLEASE A MAN. I have been stepped in feminism for so long, I automatically assume every girl has been corrupted by this.
It is very crazy to me hearing this, I like it, but the remenants of feminist indoctrination are screaming ‘this girl is just delusional, no women would WANT that’.
Anyway, nice to meet you.
Welcome to the blog, it’s nice to have a knight among us…who knows when the dragons will arrive.
As the popularity of “50 Shades” shows, women want to be dominated by someone who they are attracted to and respect. If you aren’t attracted to your man, you won’t have the desire to have sex with him and certainly not be “taken” or dominated in the way you describe. However, being the one in power, or being the one getting quote-unquote dominated is exciting and dynamic and the opposite of missionary,lights-off sex that is likely most frequent in bedrooms today. Isn’t that what we want, to feel attraction and excitement towards our partner, no matter how it’s generated? Maybe not full on BDSM, but blindfolds, scarf tied hands, etc. can be just as exciting! Great Friday post!
yes, I think just trying new things often is exciting and fun, and I’d like to tweak your comment a bit by saying that maybe dominance comes before attraction for women and men. Go be dominating AVD, your wife’s attraction will follow.
Sis, is there a large contigent of religious women who want to be submissive to males?
Well, God does command wives to be submissive and husbands to love, so I think there are quite a few religious women who want to obey the bible. The problem is, we don’t have good role models around us or we don’t recognize them because society is training us to be leaders, not submissive wives. Gone are the finishing schools and women are all studying to have careers now. I think God uses marriage to teach women His ways, He gets us to where we need to be if we trust Him regardless of our surroundings. I know I didn’t start out very submissive, it’s been a process and one that i’m not finished learning.
Sis, I personally think that while BDSM is not condemned in the Bible, it is against Natural Law. Keep in mind that we are all fallen and while I have the urges and the ability to fornicate non-stop, I don’t. Because it is against both Divine and Natural law. What’s comes to you is not always good because it is not always Natural or in line with the Divine since our desires are fallen.
I don’t understand natural law very well, Ihave no idea how BDSM would be against natural law.
Alright. I’m going to attempt to explain Natural Law to you as a Roman Papist. Natural Law is the universal laws that guide and regulate humanity within the natural order. Natural Law theory appears in pre-Christian pagan religions(which according to C.S. Lewis and me show the longing of mankind for Christ), Judaism, and in real Christianity i.e. orthodox Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy and the Confessional Protestant Church. It says that since Man has the ability to reason, it can find the moral law that is written upon the hearts of all men. Sure, there are many things in nature that are very disordered and you see both animals and men committing acts like pedophilia, homosexuality, incest, necrophilia, bestiality, and cannibalism but these acts go right against the nature of men as made by God.
The nature and purpose of sex is twofold: First it is unitive(i.e. love and all that) and second it is procreative and any sexual act that tries to go against either of these natures is an illicit and immoral sex act.
I like this statement, I see how it wouldn’t fit into natural law
Sex is not mere recreation and while it may be fun it is suppose to be unitive first and procreative second. A wife is not a prostitute or a sex toy and neither is a husband and neither should be treated like one. BDSM takes something natural(i.e. a woman’s desire to be dominated and submissive to a strong, attractive man) and perverts it by bringing in pain and hitting and weird leather gear.
Now I know that you’re a Prot and you’re thinking “but… but.. but.. thhhheeee Biiiiiiible doesn’t saaaaay so! I want to whip my husband and stick things up his butt!!”.
lol, not really..grosss
Well, Meise, this is how it goes. Saint Paul had an Epistle to the Romans and this is what he said: “For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another”
Romans 2:14-15
St. Paul says what I just did: that when pagans(or in our case, moderns) do what is contained in the law even though they do not have the Word of God, it shows that the Law is written upon the hearts of all men. Keep in mind Sis, that there is such thing as a disordered desire. Homosexuality is only one example of this. Sometimes I used to have the urge to fornicate and since I’m college-aged and considered to be attractive by the young wimminz, I have the ability to fuck like a goat. But that is not what I really wanted even when I was not a believer because the Law was written on my heart. I always wanted just one girl and fornication was never truly appealing to me.
Keep in mind another thing: it is possible to kill your conscience by sinning too much.
Love reading all the replies to this one. Definitely thought provoking. I really think it all depends on the couple and if they feel “safe” with each other and respect each other.
I know right? I like your addition of safety and respect.
“Why are we this way? What is so alluring about receiving pain and being completely submissive to a man? Why do I have fantasies so dirty I wouldn’t tell a soul and why did God make us with these desires if they are so evil?”
I can’t tell you why “we” are this way. Yes, I recognize the rhetorical nature of that question. It is meant to be more editorial than interrogative, more thought provoking than probing. But, I have been around your blog personas long enough to know you do really want an answer. The experience of BDSM is so deeply personal and individual by its very nature that I don’t feel any one can say why “we” are this way. In a very broad brush way I am sure there are commonalities within the appeal of the lifestyle, but that isn’t the enlightening truth you are looking for is it? The thing that is vexing you is why is he, or she, and most of all me, fascinated or drawn to this experience? It’s not enough to hear “I find dominance, submission, obedience, and punishment exciting,” when what we really want to know is WHY YOU do? Why are YOU this way? We think we know our neighbor, coworker, church member, brother, sister-in-law, perhaps even parent so well, and now this.
They seem like such nice, normal people otherwise. Who would think it?
Do we really want to know WHY we have those so dirty fantasies, or do we want those nice, normal others to tell us their tales over a lunch or a beer and hopefully validate our naughty feelings so we can be courageous enough to act upon them and live a more fulfilled sex life. After all, I don’t think any less of them for their pleasure choices, so why should I think less of myself for desiring the same, a fulfilled sex life?
I don’t believe God necessarily created us with specific desires and I would hesitate to call most of them evil. I think free will plays a very motivating role in our sexual choices. Having a sinful nature leads us to lustful thoughts too.
I think BD, and Ds, when practiced in joint consent and total trust and respect is more a case of pegs fitting holes, and not deviancy or perversion. I can’t say I feel the same about SM. I willingly admit being or doing degradation, humiliation, physical abuse and extreme submission is mutually exciting and satisfying to some, but personally, I don’t feel it is a healthy relationship. I accept the argument that pain and pleasure can be sides of the same coin; it is just not the coin of my realm. Some evil may indeed lurk there.
As to your fantasies, perhaps it is time to share some of them. I believe I told you of sharing one recently. If not you, Brad at onefleshmarriage.com for sure. It was a small thing, but so worth the effort. We haven’t repeated, but at least it’s out there and will be easier to bring up the next time. Please let there be a next time.
More another day.
there’s no way i’m telling my fantasies to Brad, I don’t even know Brad.
I think you probably know Brad and Kate, the husband and wife team of onefleshmarriage.com., another CMBA site. I was NOT suggesting you tell your fantasies to Brad. I was referring to a post he did in October 2012 titled “Your Secret Sexual Fantasy (http://www.onefleshmarriage.com/2012/10/your-secret-sexual-fantasy.html Sorry, I don’t know how to enter it as a link. You’ll have to cut and paste it.). He was encouraging husbands to share their fantasies with their wives to keep themselves from acting on them in inappropriate ways. There were other reasons he suggested sharing.
I didn’t even give specifics about my fantasies in my comments. I don’t believe anyone did. That was not the purpose of the post. I just commented I felt fantasies that reveal very specific desires can be confused with fetishes. A fetish may be part of a fantasy, but a fantasy is not necessarily grounded in a fetish. A true fetish is a must-have experience that has to be present on ALL ocassions for the sex act to be a complete experience for the person with the fetish. A strong preferential desire does not necessarily translate into a fetish.
I was suggesting you share with your husband, the only person with whom you should be wanting to live out your fantasies. Obviously, you can share with a therapist, a best friend or anyone else you want, that’s up to you. We’re not talking here about fulfilling them with anyone other than DH. Whew! Glad we got that cleared up.
Yeah I know who they are, but I don’t think we’ve ever chatted before. Oh good, I’ve shared a few with my husband
. I’ll have to look at the book that their post is about, it sounds good. You have such good advice.
Hi Sis. I’ll say I don’t usually pop in here much because it gets a little too tempting, but it’s always a good read. This one is no exception.
that means a lot to me, thanks
I think the Lord gives us appetites to follow out consistent with what He makes man and woman to be, but it always comes down to an issue of trust. Can a husband trust his wife with his fantasies and not be ridiculed or rejected, but have her at least entertain them? Can a wife trust her husband with her fantasies, including his willingness to incorporate them into what he does? From what I read about BDSM, that’s usually the appeal. As I’ve written before, when the natural parts of us are repressed they tend to come out in destructive ways. I see this with women in the FSoG phenomenon and I see it in men too (although this suppression of men is cultural). It seems natural to me for a woman to want to go to submission and then want to go deeper into it as time goes by to test the trust factor.
the natural being repressed resulting in extremes makes a lot of sense.
You’ve given me much to think on with this, in fact enough for a blog post, in answering this.
it would be honor enough for you to use these ideas, blog away, to God be the glory, no need to refer back to a sexy post to dirty your readers’ minds
But the short answer, parallel to your question below, is that respect and admiration is “the drug” for men and it parallels Christ precisely. Oddly enough this is the opposite of what the church and society both teach, which is the opposite that is poison to men and destroys intimacy in marriage for men. Looking at my pre-Christ life, I’d agree with your first sentence, although it really applies to any situation, not just sexual ones (as long as it’s genuine). And Proverbs 5:18-19 uses the words intoxicated, exhilarated, or ravished depending on the translation as it relates to women, which all imply no limits and not holding back.
I’ve been getting the message that women shouldn’t hold back either, just let their man do the leading and follow along wherever he takes them
Women, your genuine respect and admiration (for what he does to love, for who he is as a person) is what men crave just like you crave to be loved. To that end, looking to your blessings in your husband and accentuating those and praising him instead of focusing on his faults will buy a ton of currency from him. I give that advice as it relates to God, too, but it fits for both.
+1 all of this. Include submitting to God too and taking up the proper roles that His true and genuine instruction lays out. What better for a man to understand what he needs to be for a wife than to study Christ? And what better for a woman to understand what she needs to be for a husband than to study how the Church is to deal with Christ?
Because Satan wants to pervert our natural desires. Though I’d say the ultimate form of submission would just say to a partner “do whatever you please” and have the trust that you would still be loved. But I definitely have equivalent questions (along the respect and admiration lines) about the fantasies that run through my head too.
“Men out there, make sure your wife is getting a taste of your power during sex every once in awhile, we need it just as much as you do.”
What is this taste of power women are looking for? I am not being coy. Seriously, how do you ladies see it?. I am not so simple as to think it manifests the same for all of you, so let’s hear from a wide cross-section. Perhaps this is not the place. Maybe you could do a survey and post about it, Sis, so it wouldn’t be hidden within this thread. Are we talking alpha/beta issues or red/blue pill stuff? Or is it something else? It’s one thing to read “50 Shades…” and fantasize about it, but an entire other thing to adopt some of the practices into your own reality. If all of the above is way off-base from what all of you mean, it only demonstrates how ignorant we can be of what you want.
To clarify what I am seeking, as the moderator of a panel discussion, ala Charlie Rose, I would ask this question: I hear all of you women say you want a taste of your man’s power during sex. I suspect it’s different for all of you, so each of you finish this thought for me.
“I really like the way my husband shows his power during sex when he_________.”
Shall we do it here and now, Sis, or do you want to create a post?
That would be a fun post…but I keep growing away from talking about sex..Women want a man in charge and a part of that is not being in control of him or the way we have sex. He must lead (most of the time)…He can’t follow all of my little rules. He needs to dominate like only a man would.
“I imagine there is nothing better to a man than a woman who is taking complete pleasure in him sexually, savoring him “like chocolate”, and delighting in him. Is it sacrilegious to jump to this is what God asks us to do. God asks us to glorify Him and enjoy Him forever, that is the chief end of man…so would it not be a leap to say that this is what husbands desire..husbands being Christ and the wife being the church, Christ should be enjoyed and glorified too?
Do I hear a BIG amen from the choir on that one?! Why yes, I believe I do. I have said it somewhere before and if it was here, so what. I’m gonna say it again. We want to be cherished too. If that’s too beta a word for some of you, grow up and get a vocabulary (easy big fella). PLEASE do savor and delight in us. If your husband spends nearly an hour or better lavishing and ravishing your body, it is likely he would appreciate the same. We may not be multi-orgasmic (Who says God doesn’t have a wicked sense of humour.), and we may not be able to forestall climax as long as some of you ladies (which may be more our fault than your actual desire), but please spend some time worshiping and cherishing our bodies as we do yours. It is often pointed out that what someone does during sex to or for you is something they would like to have done to or for them. If i spend a half-hour pampering THAT spot with my mouth and fingers, guess what. That’s right. I can get an aching jaw or tongue too after a few minutes. That’s when it’s time to go for the change-up curve ball, a little somthing different. It is not the time to call in the relief pitcher with a series of low, inside fast balls to bring the inning to a speedy close. Linger awhile. Pamper us with your hands too. We’re generally not in any hurry. They sould call it “fourplay” to remind us all to spend 4 times longer than we think necessary or plan. My wife used to think she had to keep moving along to her orgasm because I might be getting tired, fatigued, or bored with PIV or oral specifically. REALLY?! Bored? Tonight, if I happen to fall asleep while doing it, look and see if the sun is coming up about then..
As a husband, this is what I do. I make love to my wife by making love to her parts too. I don’t just give them attention. I treat them as if they are a mini her. All six lips, cheeks, ears, eyelids toes, thighs, hands, shoulders, knees, etc,, get kissed with the same passion, joy and devotion. I treat her as on big erogenous zone. We never spend less than 45 minutes. I am consumed with passion for her. And that’s what I want in return. So, take a clue from your husband. If you don’t put as much passion and expression into it as he does, you are probably falling short. If he can work up the vulnerability to moan, groan and thrash around, so can you. Have you ever gone to a lot of effort to cook his favorite dinner and then watched as he just ate it and failed to acknowlege your time and effort? Did you patiently wait for a complement or other verbal utterance as to how good it was tasting only to hear nothing? He wants to be your favorite meal and wants you to let him “know” how much you like it, especially during the meal. I make special efforts to express my appreciaton for my favorite “meal” as I enjoy it. It was a little uncomfortable and felt a little affected aurally at first, but I got used to it and now it comes from a very natural place. Are you willing to do them same for us?
i am not going to use the above religious argument to goad you into doing it. I just wanted to keep the context of Sis’ thought so I included all of it.. I don’t like to use the bible in a way that seems self-serving or justifies my personal means to an end. I don’t want someone to think I am alluding to loving Christ in an erotic way either. I do so hate qualifiers.
I would say “admire”, but this is what I was getting at by what I wrote above. But I get another thing out of this: What you usually see out of someone (if not instructed differently), is what they’re looking for themselves. But what this post specifically reminds me of (for that blog post above), is a passage out of the book I’m reading for that blog post. I read it, and was pretty much in shock. Read it a second time, looked at the back cover…this was a woman that wrote this?!? Read it again…”wow I want that so bad…” I think… Let’s just say that author is one of the few rare women that seems to understand men.
Too late tonight to reply beyond what the title of the book is? I would like some clarification on your reply but will wait until later. My bed is missing me now.
@userdand I don’t know how far Sis wants to go as far as “manosphere” stuff ending up on her blog, so I’ll defer to her, especially since the book is very much manosphere-related.
Basically, to couch what the book is about in religious terms (it’s not a religious text), the book is about how society is ingrained to devalue (to borrow Dr. Bals’ term) God’s “inner beauty” that has been placed within men, gets men to value themselves in terms of the approval of women and not the approval of God, and then leads them down the road of being slaves to the desires of women and serve them instead of serve God. Basically the practical results of what I wrote about here. I have disagreements with a few points of it, but I found the whole thing very thought-provoking (mainly because the thoughts expressed were so different) and enlightening.
The passage I’m thinking of involves the author describing the positive attributes a man, going into it deeply enough that it’s almost an experience. It wasn’t all that sexual on the face of it, but it kinda turned that way in the light of what I wrote in the comment above responding to this blog post here. The only take-away I could get from it was like above.
As for clarification of what I wrote above, by all means ask away.
Sounds like a good book, I don’t pretend to stay away from the manosphere, especially the Christian part of it, sometimes anger is a quicker way to truth than kindness.